I had contacted Bond Arms last week to see if I could purchase an XR9-L unlock block.  I thought that would be the most likely piece to fail.  Just got a response from Bond customer service that there will be an announcement when they start making the XR9-L.  Also, at that time, you will be able to send in your Boberg to have the barrel and unlock block replaced with NP3 covered parts.  Or, you can send your own parts to Robar and have them coated for $70.  I sent in my XR9-L barrel, guide rod, and action block this week, and the same parts for my "shorty" are going to Robar when I get the first parts back.  Glad to hear that Bond will build the XR9-L.  I just wish they would make the .45 also.  There is obviously a good market for the .45.

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Just out of curiosity, Bob, what aspects of the 45 do you think need re-design. If It were up to me, I would vote for fixing the LRE problem, a less pronounced curve in the back strap area of the grips, and I see no reason for Boberg's proprietary sight cuts. Arne should have picked some well established standard so we would have more options. (He probably could have purchased them cheaper for his own manufacturing process as well.) Other than that, I'm not sure what else I would ask for.

The pull length of the trigger is just too long for even a person with average sized hands in my opinion.  All the major gun companies are recognizing this with  replacement backstraps and the government and government agencies are requiring it on contract guns.  That is my major gripe.  Slow fire is fine for me with the XR45.  When I try to do a rapid fire drill, the long pull length and the long trigger pull cause my hand to turn on the pistol grip and I lose control and accuracy.  To counteract this, I must use my off hand for about 80% of the "grip force" and this causes accuracy problems for me.  During long shooting sessions, the 'bump' on the back of the grip would beat on my thumb joint and rub it raw, it happened twice.

I had a XDs45 before I had a XR45.  I worked with the XR45's for about 3 months working thru magazine problems and got it working fine but realized the size was causing me problems.  I finally took along the XDs45 to compare.  I shot a box of +P through the Boberg and then got out the XD for some practice.  What a difference.  I have not shot the Boberg 45's since.

Live round ejections were not a major problem for me.  They only occurred at the end of long sessions and I was tired or when I was trying to shoot for maximum accuracy and my grip was more relaxed.  For me, the LRE were caused by my grip and not the gun.

I agree with all your other suggestions, but I really never got that far into the Boberg 45's to worry about the small stuff.  I have had no problems with the Boberg 9mm pistols.

For me, I think I am done with any more hammer fired DAO pistols and will stick with the striker fired guns to get a trigger that is more to my liking.  That is just my opinion.


Major Johnson said:

Just out of curiosity, Bob, what aspects of the 45 do you think need re-design. If It were up to me, I would vote for fixing the LRE problem, a less pronounced curve in the back strap area of the grips, and I see no reason for Boberg's proprietary sight cuts. Arne should have picked some well established standard so we would have more options. (He probably could have purchased them cheaper for his own manufacturing process as well.) Other than that, I'm not sure what else I would ask for.

Bob,

We are in complete agreement. My issue with the back strap is to solve the trigger reach problem. It could be solved either by replaceable backstraps like Glock or simply replacement grips with less bulge.

The reason for the hump if I remember right was Arne wanted it there to absorb recoil, I think he called it the trampoline affect.

The XDS45 is actually a tiny bit lighter and even with 230 grain +P, recoil is entirely controllable for me.  I have had no problem shooting a 100 rounds.

One Gun Store I frequent  has a range and I tried a S&W 45 Shield and it has less felt recoil that the Springfield.

Major Johnson said:

Bob,

We are in complete agreement. My issue with the back strap is to solve the trigger reach problem. It could be solved either by replaceable backstraps like Glock or simply replacement grips with less bulge.

do not forget, the 9mm suffers from LRE just as the .45s do! 

the LRE's are not created by grip what-so ever. we have proven this in a test environment. you will not get LRE's if the internal extractor is properly gripping the case rim.

limp wrist it all you want, it will indeed effect feed and ejection, but it will not cause LRE's

Major Johnson said:

Just out of curiosity, Bob, what aspects of the 45 do you think need re-design. If It were up to me, I would vote for fixing the LRE problem, a less pronounced curve in the back strap area of the grips, and I see no reason for Boberg's proprietary sight cuts. Arne should have picked some well established standard so we would have more options. (He probably could have purchased them cheaper for his own manufacturing process as well.) Other than that, I'm not sure what else I would ask for.

Mark

You have more experience than I on the subject but all I know is what has happened to me.

No LRE's with my 9mm Boberg's.

The 5 or 6 LRE's that happened with my 45's out of 800 to 1000 rounds occurred when I am fairly certain I was limp wristing because of fatigue or using a "loose target type grip".


Mark Dante said:

do not forget, the 9mm suffers from LRE just as the .45s do! 

the LRE's are not created by grip what-so ever. we have proven this in a test environment. you will not get LRE's if the internal extractor is properly gripping the case rim.

limp wrist it all you want, it will indeed effect feed and ejection, but it will not cause LRE's

Major Johnson said:

Just out of curiosity, Bob, what aspects of the 45 do you think need re-design. If It were up to me, I would vote for fixing the LRE problem, a less pronounced curve in the back strap area of the grips, and I see no reason for Boberg's proprietary sight cuts. Arne should have picked some well established standard so we would have more options. (He probably could have purchased them cheaper for his own manufacturing process as well.) Other than that, I'm not sure what else I would ask for.

My LREs seem to be at least partially magazine related. I.e.: no LREs at all with some magazines, more than a few with other mags. Nevertheless it does seem likely that, as Mark has made abundantly clear, the root cause is malformed internal fixed extractors.

Bob Cohee said:

Mark

You have more experience than I on the subject but all I know is what has happened to me.

No LRE's with my 9mm Boberg's.

The 5 or 6 LRE's that happened with my 45's out of 800 to 1000 rounds occurred when I am fairly certain I was limp wristing because of fatigue or using a "loose target type grip".


Mark Dante said:

do not forget, the 9mm suffers from LRE just as the .45s do! 

the LRE's are not created by grip what-so ever. we have proven this in a test environment. you will not get LRE's if the internal extractor is properly gripping the case rim.

limp wrist it all you want, it will indeed effect feed and ejection, but it will not cause LRE's

Major Johnson said:

Just out of curiosity, Bob, what aspects of the 45 do you think need re-design. If It were up to me, I would vote for fixing the LRE problem, a less pronounced curve in the back strap area of the grips, and I see no reason for Boberg's proprietary sight cuts. Arne should have picked some well established standard so we would have more options. (He probably could have purchased them cheaper for his own manufacturing process as well.) Other than that, I'm not sure what else I would ask for.

Mark is a good guy and knows what is going on.  LRE just were not a problem for me.

As a side note, Mark also told me that the gun beating on my thumb joint is not a problem with the gun, it is a hand problem.  Tell that to all the guys on here that complained of the same problem.  LOL

yupper... there are a group of folks out there that have what we referred to as "tom thumb"

outstretch your hand and look at your thumb... you have two "knuckles" on your thumb. one that is at the very base and one just below the thumbnail.

some folks, when their hand is outstretched normally, have a much more pronounced "first knuckle" like the image below...some folks will have a much less pronounced first knuckle, and the "line" their thumb makes is much more straight, as opposed to the somewhat crooked "line" the thumb pictured above makes...

(in my former life, i was an art director for television. when hiring up the occasional hand model we would quickly weed through the "tom thumb" folks and get them out... before it spread to the others...)

folks with "tom thumb" as pictured above, will almost always have issues with shooting the XR.45.

i have a small hand, i am sure its much smaller than most folks on the forum... and i never had issues with pain from the .45

often times putting 600 rounds through pistols in a single session. never had an issue. some big feller with tom thumb will put two mags through it and start caterwauling...

THAT SAID. if one purchases a pistol that is not comfortable in their hand, or uncomfortable to shoot... do they learn a lesson, never to make an UN-informed pistol choice again?

or do they purchase another pistol, without getting it in their hands and shooting it...?

because that is the real issue here.

After owning over 200 pistols and revolvers and not having this kind of trouble, I just do not expect it.

I shoot Wildey's, Auto Mags, LAR Grizzly's, Raging Bulls, and 500 S&W. All these guns have large grips.  I bought the XR45 before Boberg brought them out.  I assumed that the pistols was designed so that I can reach the trigger and shoot with a proper grip like all other pistols I have bought and owned.

No, the XR45 requires that I shoot the pistol off my thumb instead of the web of my hand.

That is the issue here.



John s neska said:

Thanks Vern!  Your leg work will benefit all of the BOBERG fans like myself.


Gentleman, I forgot about posting the results of shooting my XR9-L with the barrel and unlock block treated with NP3 by Robar. I fired about fifty rounds the other day, several ammo types. Zero failures of any type, and the pistol seems to cycle a little smoother. The biggest change is that the outside of the barrel and the unlock block just wipe clean with a cloth. You can purchase replacement parts from Bond that are coated with NP3,or send your own Boberg parts in to be treated. The customer service at Robar is absolutely superb, and their honesty is exceeded only by the quality of their work. I have had at least five firearms treated at Robar, and will continue to be a customer. Also, I am going to send in the barrel and unlock block from my XR9-S to be treated with NP3. Attached is a photo of my Olympic Arms UMAR .22-250 that just came back from Robar with NP3 applied.

Happy Holidays!
Attachments:
Vern: Thanks for coming back and letting us know your experience with Robar AND the results from the treatment of your parts. I️ think reach out to them again and send in my parts too, there being really nothing to lose at this point.


Vern said:


John s neska said:

Thanks Vern!  Your leg work will benefit all of the BOBERG fans like myself.


Gentleman, I forgot about posting the results of shooting my XR9-L with the barrel and unlock block treated with NP3 by Robar. I fired about fifty rounds the other day, several ammo types. Zero failures of any type, and the pistol seems to cycle a little smoother. The biggest change is that the outside of the barrel and the unlock block just wipe clean with a cloth. You can purchase replacement parts from Bond that are coated with NP3,or send your own Boberg parts in to be treated. The customer service at Robar is absolutely superb, and their honesty is exceeded only by the quality of their work. I have had at least five firearms treated at Robar, and will continue to be a customer. Also, I am going to send in the barrel and unlock block from my XR9-S to be treated with NP3. Attached is a photo of my Olympic Arms UMAR .22-250 that just came back from Robar with NP3 applied.

Happy Holidays!

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