I have the 45 and a number of us have reported live round ejections. I believe that this happens with the 9's also. My live round ejections are of the type where after a round is fired, the empty brass is ejected, a new round is successfully loaded in the chamber, and an additional live round is usually ejected clear, but occasionally stovepipes, preventing the slide from closing on the already chambered new round. I'm using Winchester white box 230 FMJ. I have not noticed any consistent pattern of this happening early or late in the mag stack.
Does anybody have any insights into the cause or cure for this problem? My best guess is that there is enough friction between the top two rounds in the mag that as the tongs strip the top round backward, the friction drags the next round down right back with it.. If that is the problem, the only solution that comes to mind would be lubing each round before loading. Anybody have any thoughts on this problem? Has anybody ever had a conversation with or a repair done by the factory for this problem?
My experience with both the 9 and the 45 is that when a live round ejection or a live round stovepipe occurs, the chamber is empty, i.e., the round that was supposed to go into the chamber gets thrown clear instead. I don't see how two rounds could be drawn from the magazine when the slide retracts, because a round has to rise above the edge of the magazine before it can be pulled out, and that doesn't happen until the first round is pulled clear. But be that is it may, have you tried lubing the rounds, and if so, what happened? My concern would be that oil (if that's the lube) would seep/creep into the casing or the primer.
And thanks for posting this topic, it's an important issue.
Mine have always been in conjunction with proper chambering of a live round. In many cases the only way I know that it has even happened is that I pull the trigger for what should be the last shot, all I get is a click, and I see that my chamber, as well as my mag, is empty. Every shot felt fine, but load x rounds, fire x-1 times and gun is empty.
I have not tried lubing. I share your concern about seepage. It might be fine for practice and as a diagnostic tool, but for carry ammo, I'd be reluctant. There is however, some special sealant/lacquer that is designed to be applied to primers and case mouths. I might try that before applying lube.
That's interesting. I also know that a live round ejection has occurred when I pull the trigger and nothing happens--but it usually happens part way through the magazine, not necessarily the last round. This is just speculation, but could it be that your last round is getting ejected live? If so, that might suggest a problem with the magazine spring. It would be great if you could fix the problem with a new mag spring!
I've put a lot of thought into this, but with no definitive answer. What goes on inside the Boberg is like something inside a black box--very difficult to analyze. It seems to me that if the left tong doesn't get a good grip on a round, then the round might spin out of the ejection port. Or if the round being pulled from the magazine hits the ejector (don't know whether that's physically possible) it could be ejected.
Here's a hypothesis that has been suggested:
Just to be clear, mine are not necessarily on the last round. I have no way of knowing most of the time, unless I got a stovepipe. I only detect the problem when I get to what should have been the last round, and I find all rounds have already been fired or ejected. The few stovepipes have occurred at random places in the mag.
Live round ejections followed by an empty chamber and those followed by a full chamber, could have completely different causes. In your scenario, it's hard to see how a single round stripped and then "bobbled" by the tongs, could result in a chambered round. I can imagine two other possibilities that could allow for a full chamber.
1. The tongs go too low and actually grab portions of the top two rounds at the same time and drag them both backward.One gets chambered and the other flies out.
2. When the top round is stripped back and the lower round rises in the mag, rather than rising to the mag lips and just stopping as it should, it somehow bounces off the lips and is bobbled right out of the top of the mag.
I'll check out the other thread.
I think you're right, there could be multiple causes. Could even be different specific causes for a stovepipe versus a live ejection. I've been assuming they were symptoms of the same problem, but I have no way of knowing.
When you have a live round stovepipe, is there one in the chamber or is it empty? Both my 9 and 45 always have an empty chamber with a live round stovepipe.
I seem to recall live chambered rounds. I can only speak to my gun of course, but my guess is that my LRE's are all caused by the same thing, whatever that is, and it's just luck of the draw whether the ejected round flies clear or gets trapped by the returning slide to cause the stovepipe.
Do you notice any differences between your 9 and your 45 in this area?
BTW, thank you for engaging in this discussion with me and adding your thoughts. I so wish we had Mark Dante still around to help, but it looks like we owners are all we have for mutual support for a while.
You are welcome, and I hope others will join in as well. Maybe something helpful will surface.
The behavior of my 9 and 45 are similar w/r to target ammo. I HOPE the behavior of the 45 is not similar to the 9 w/r to self defense ammo (which I haven't tried yet in the 45). It was a very disappointing experience trying to run the HST and Ranger T in the 9. Live round ejections every magazine, and the magazine kept dropping out with the HST.
On a more cheerful note, I recently put 50 rds of Critical Defense through the 9 with NO live ejections. However, on one round the gun did not fully go into battery. It lacked about a quarter inch or so. After a couple of tries I was able to rack the slide which fixed the problem.
I agree, I wish Mark was still around. He was very helpful.
Well let me give you a heads up on HST for the 45. The shape of the nose allows them to be improperly inserted too far forward and jamming inside the mag.
Disucssion of causes and solutions here:
If memory serves me correctly, the design of the XR45 magazine is different to allow use of the .460 Rowland cartridge which has the same overall length of the cartridge as the .45 ACP and .45 Super but which has a longer case.
It would be possible to manufacture XR45 magazines using the XR9 design, but that would preclude use of the .460 Rowland cartridges in those magazines.
Thanks. I actually followed the XR45 craft stick discussion closely when I was trying to troubleshoot my HST problems in the XR9 (but not the same problem--the XR9 magazine doesn't have that problem). I'll probably try the spacer. I don't know why Arne didn't design the 45 magazine to be like the 9. Maybe that's something Bond can improve on.
I have had several live round ejections with my XR45 but never with my XR9. The chamber was always empty when this happened.
I believe that my problem was caused by limp wristing the pistol. I say this as all my LRE occurred well into long range sessions when I was getting tired or when I was shooting for accuracy and my grip was a bit more relaxed. As I have stated before, the XR45 is too large for my hand and more of the grip has to be done with my off hand than I am used to. This causes me to have to really think about my grip when shooting the Boberg.
I do a lot of target shooting and this is done with a very light grip and I shoot other guns way more than the Bobergs.
Arne's idea of shooting the 460 Rowland in the XR45 was crazy in my opinion. Frames were cracking with 45 Supers. I shoot a 460 Rowland and it is 44 mag in performance. A steel framed 1911 needs the weight and compensation forces of a big comp to take the abuse.