Just lubed a shorty - not the best stuff, but the good stuff

You may have seen my other posts about IF WS2 (Inorganic Fullerene like Tungsten Disulphide) . My quest is not yet terminated. This is the ultimate lubricant (in my opinion). I want to share my thoughts about the use of the non-IF version.

I have some WS2 that has an average particle size of 600 nm. The Fullerene version has some different and advantageous characteristics; but this ain't bad. It is more lubricious than Molybdenum Disulphide. Not as good as IF MS2 for permanent plating the material surfaces.

I just treated an original shorty. The results: I can not really feel the difference so far in racking the slide. I was hoping for a more pronounced change to allow my wife to use the gun. Some wear-in may change this. I have a shorty that has not been treated with WS2 for comparison. The most noticeable change is in the trigger. The gun treated with WS2 has a very noticeable improvement in the smoothness of the trigger. This is only dry fire. I have not fired it since the new lubrication. But the trigger is real noticeable. The overall operation should improve with use. The lubricant bonds with the material interfaces and forms a new surface that is slipperier than the bare surface. It is slipperier than any other lubricant and withstands high pressure and temperatures. This would replace (in my opinion)  Arne's recommendation for lubricating the high pressure areas of the gun. It has none of the graphite in the recommended lubricant. Graphite can cause galling when used in the interface between Aluminum and stainless steel.

Some general points. A product with an average particle size of 600nm will contain many smaller particles. The IF version STARTS at 60nm. WS2 is not considered a hazardous material by the EPA. I may have quoted this here before;  Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Nano scale particles are magic. Materials at these particle size may behave quite differently than normal sized particles of the same substance. 

If you get some of this material (and especially if you find the IF version), I believe you should take some precautions. In my first handling (transferring form the original bag to a container), I felt I was taking adequate precautions (did it outside on a calm day). My lungs felt "funny" for several days. My second use, I did all the handling in a plastic bag, outside. When I was finished I zipped the bag shut and put it in the trash.If you get particles that are smaller, an exhaust hood may be appropriate. The particles are way smaller than the ratings on almost any filters you may have access to. I would suggest that your first action should be putting the powder in a carrier fluid to eliminate dust. I used 99% alcohol. Other carriers that enhance penetration in small cracks would be desirable. Kroil comes to mind, but it stinks and I believe it leaves a residue. But I have never found anything that matches its' performance in penetrating rust or tight joints.

I took a hypodermic with a blunt needle and filled it about 3/4 full of 99% alcohol and then squirted it into a disposable cup. I then added WS2 and mixed it. I did this until it appeared to be about saturated. Then I sucked the resulting mixture back into the hypodermic.

I would recommend that before starting to apply the lubricant, you cover the exposed external areas of the gun with blue masking tape. I would also recommend wearing gloves. I found soap and water will clean hands. If you get some of the material on something you do not want it on (e.g., visible surfaces)  I recommend a paper towel saturated with a cleaner. I used Slick 2000 because I had it. It worked well to degrease and clean WS2. This is a guess,but I would not try to remove WS2 from a surface by just rubbing it. This could bond it to the surface.

Use the hypodermic to put a light coat on the target surfaces. Let the alcohol evaporate before moving things around so it might run. When everything of interest is coated, reassemble the gun. Remove the tape. Clean any areas that have a coating but you don't want it there. Use a cleaner.

Run out and fire a few thousand rounds and let me know how it works out.

In a semi related issue, I have found a motor oil that appears to use IF WS2 (the holy grail of lubricants). It is not currently available in non-racing formulations in the US; but will be in a month or so when the shipment arrives from England. The racing oils are available now. Pricy ($20 - $30/quart) but for gun lube that is a lifetime supply. Brand is Millers Oils. US distributor is http://performanceoilstore.com/products.asp?cat=68. I don't want to use this for guns because I do not want the oil. But I have ordered some for my cars. Suggested 50% reduction in internal engine friction losses. Yes; really. Remember the Technology sufficiently etc.

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A bit of clarification. I wrote Slick 2000; I meant Slip 2000. Whole different thing. The cleaner and degreaser. Degrease before applying WS2. May not be necessary; but it can't hurt.

The shorties I used: the reference was as received from Arne with their lube, the test gun was cleaned with Slip 2000 degreaser. Previously lubed with Slip 2000. Neither gun has fired many (zero and less than 20) rounds.

Getting ready to lube with WS2; paper towels, gloves, newspaper (or whatever) on the work surface, and degreaser. It is messy. But the results persist. Even if you don't want them to.

Regarding nano particles. The nano version of any material may have a significantly different biological impact than the normal compound. It may pass though cell walls and the blood/brain interface. This is not your father's lubricant.  No evidence for most specific compounds yet, but think about it. Please let me know about extra digits or zombie tendencies after using the material. And there are a whole bunch of this particle size materials being used in consumer products. Think Asbestos, Silver, Zinc Oxide (sun block and many other uses), Diesel exhaust, Lead, etc. The normally available breathing filters usually don't deal with particles smaller than 1000 nm. And those are high end filters. This stuff can be less than 60 nm,.  Think about the issues and be careful.

Oh, after using this stuff my bald areas grew new hair and I can now play the piano. That is all I will disclose.Let me know of any other side effects.

Just wanted to say thanks for the research. I don't know how many other people here are interested in this but I've enjoyed all your threads on the topic.

I have found a US source of IF WS2 grease. It is not on public sale as yet, but I have an engineering sample. A while back I shared the source information with the site administrator and he forwarded it to the appropriate people. It seems to me to be a reasonable consistency for use on the high impact lug area. I am not a fan of the recommended lubricant.

The difficulty with civilians (i.e., me) looking at lubricants is that we generally have no means to definitively test the characteristics. I have corresponded with various experienced people  within the industry, and read more papers than I really wanted to, and I am convinced of my (their) conclusions. If you put some in your gun, you may not feel a difference. I have used various materials. I have been pleased with the results. I bought a CZ 75. I had it tuned by an expert. When I used my "mystery " lube on it, I really believe I felt an improvement. It operated like snot on a doorknob. Bad science to relate a single "perception" to reality.

I have not received any feedback from Boberg Arms. No idea if they tested it. No idea what the results were if it was tried. The issue here is lifertime of the basic gun and reliability.

Alternety, have you looked at Nanolub engine oil additive, I've ordered some for my car.  It's supposed to have IF WS2 in it.  I may try it in other areas.  Suggested use is 1 oz per qt.

Yes. The are the real thing.

This is the new US name from the people in Israel that were very early developers of IF WS2 in production quantities. Formed by a bunch of high level researchers. Their marketing and distribution was quite awful for years.

If has been a bit tricky to get the full range of their products in the US. This should help. I have to go and look around to see if they now have their grease or grease additive available in the US.  This could be a candidate to replace the Molly stuff Boberg Arms recommends for some critical points in the guns. It is superior in pretty much every way to Moly (with or without graphite in the Moly).

Live lubricated and prosper.

I wonder if this is the magic sauce that is used in Slipstream.  The makers are not disclosing what they use, but your description matches closely to the articles I have read about Slipstream.

I have used this and have found it to work better than any other lubricants I have used.  Am also curious about Froglube, but have not used it.

Check out www.crusaderweaponry.com or amazon for purchase.  Do a youtube search for videos showing the remarkable change made by this oil and grease.

Not cheap, but so little needs to be used that it seems to last forever.

I wasn't too impressed with Froglube, M-pro7 beats it and Slipstream beats both.  I still use M-pro7 cleaner though, I like the way it cleans.

Slipstream may be WS2; but from the particle size they listed, it would be just regular old WS2 not IF WS2. The Inorganic Fullerene-like material from NanoLube will be in the 50 - 150 nm range. Slipstream says they have 500 nm particles. The Bucky balls basically define the range of "particle" diameter. Apparently the production materials generate a range of Bucky Balls (e.g., little tiny BBs). But I have never seen any information on material with much bigger balls.The Slickstream would be generated from another process, and maybe milled afterward.

Go look here (http://nisusacorp.com/technology/) and read the material. They got a much better writer to update this information. I am still not convinced that the "rolling ball" effect is a major contributor to lubrication. When the Bucky Balls slide along they can break down "flake off" into particles as small as a single molecule. But, it is my belief that the people that founded this company were a serious part of inventing/developing this form of WS2. They oughta know. But a few serious lubricant scientists/engineers share my doubt.

http://www.archoil.com/ar4000-gun-oil/ also has IF WS2 products. And one very strange sounding grease with true snake oil sounding performance. Apparently mined in the Ural mountains by some of Snow White's closest friends. I meant to order a small amount, but all they had when I ordered was a full tube at about $70.

I think Froglube is an organic base.

The Archoil site said that AR4200 gun oil had a dark amber color; I received the NIS Nanolub GE-S4100 engine oil additive this aft and in playing with it, also has a dark amber color.  The Slipstream grease and oil has a dark grey/black color more indicative of moly.  Will throw some Nanolub in the car tomorrow.  Don't know if there is any benefit in putting the IF- WS2 in the XR45 on top of Slipstream.

the Crusader people have said that SS is not Moly.  Not sure what it is but am sure it isn't that.

That color is essentially the same for either. It is the dilution level that is providing different colors. Both are essentially black in pure form.

In some oils the level is under 5%. A little goes a long way.

Don't use WS2 and Moly together. There is no positive effect and each will try to bind to the surface. Each one will conflict with the other. If you applied a Moly based oil, just stop and clean it. Use IF WS2 afterwards. It will eventually displace the Moly. You want to build up a nice much flatter surface of the mating moving parts.

Pat, I have had a lot of history with retailers (or manufacturers, that simply will not know and/or tell you what is in there.

NanoLube I am completely certain of. Archoil to a very high level of confidence.

Alternety, in another thread you mentioned you had 60-80nm IF-WS2.  May I ask where you got it?  I can think of a lot of applications; door hinges, locks, any metal that moves without bearings, let alone the Bobergs.  I put some Nanolub in my car today, but the only thing I noticed were a little lower engine temp. and my cruise control went up a half mile per hour on its' own.  I'll have to see if there are any long term benefits.

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