Just lubed a shorty - not the best stuff, but the good stuff

You may have seen my other posts about IF WS2 (Inorganic Fullerene like Tungsten Disulphide) . My quest is not yet terminated. This is the ultimate lubricant (in my opinion). I want to share my thoughts about the use of the non-IF version.

I have some WS2 that has an average particle size of 600 nm. The Fullerene version has some different and advantageous characteristics; but this ain't bad. It is more lubricious than Molybdenum Disulphide. Not as good as IF MS2 for permanent plating the material surfaces.

I just treated an original shorty. The results: I can not really feel the difference so far in racking the slide. I was hoping for a more pronounced change to allow my wife to use the gun. Some wear-in may change this. I have a shorty that has not been treated with WS2 for comparison. The most noticeable change is in the trigger. The gun treated with WS2 has a very noticeable improvement in the smoothness of the trigger. This is only dry fire. I have not fired it since the new lubrication. But the trigger is real noticeable. The overall operation should improve with use. The lubricant bonds with the material interfaces and forms a new surface that is slipperier than the bare surface. It is slipperier than any other lubricant and withstands high pressure and temperatures. This would replace (in my opinion)  Arne's recommendation for lubricating the high pressure areas of the gun. It has none of the graphite in the recommended lubricant. Graphite can cause galling when used in the interface between Aluminum and stainless steel.

Some general points. A product with an average particle size of 600nm will contain many smaller particles. The IF version STARTS at 60nm. WS2 is not considered a hazardous material by the EPA. I may have quoted this here before;  Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Nano scale particles are magic. Materials at these particle size may behave quite differently than normal sized particles of the same substance. 

If you get some of this material (and especially if you find the IF version), I believe you should take some precautions. In my first handling (transferring form the original bag to a container), I felt I was taking adequate precautions (did it outside on a calm day). My lungs felt "funny" for several days. My second use, I did all the handling in a plastic bag, outside. When I was finished I zipped the bag shut and put it in the trash.If you get particles that are smaller, an exhaust hood may be appropriate. The particles are way smaller than the ratings on almost any filters you may have access to. I would suggest that your first action should be putting the powder in a carrier fluid to eliminate dust. I used 99% alcohol. Other carriers that enhance penetration in small cracks would be desirable. Kroil comes to mind, but it stinks and I believe it leaves a residue. But I have never found anything that matches its' performance in penetrating rust or tight joints.

I took a hypodermic with a blunt needle and filled it about 3/4 full of 99% alcohol and then squirted it into a disposable cup. I then added WS2 and mixed it. I did this until it appeared to be about saturated. Then I sucked the resulting mixture back into the hypodermic.

I would recommend that before starting to apply the lubricant, you cover the exposed external areas of the gun with blue masking tape. I would also recommend wearing gloves. I found soap and water will clean hands. If you get some of the material on something you do not want it on (e.g., visible surfaces)  I recommend a paper towel saturated with a cleaner. I used Slick 2000 because I had it. It worked well to degrease and clean WS2. This is a guess,but I would not try to remove WS2 from a surface by just rubbing it. This could bond it to the surface.

Use the hypodermic to put a light coat on the target surfaces. Let the alcohol evaporate before moving things around so it might run. When everything of interest is coated, reassemble the gun. Remove the tape. Clean any areas that have a coating but you don't want it there. Use a cleaner.

Run out and fire a few thousand rounds and let me know how it works out.

In a semi related issue, I have found a motor oil that appears to use IF WS2 (the holy grail of lubricants). It is not currently available in non-racing formulations in the US; but will be in a month or so when the shipment arrives from England. The racing oils are available now. Pricy ($20 - $30/quart) but for gun lube that is a lifetime supply. Brand is Millers Oils. US distributor is http://performanceoilstore.com/products.asp?cat=68. I don't want to use this for guns because I do not want the oil. But I have ordered some for my cars. Suggested 50% reduction in internal engine friction losses. Yes; really. Remember the Technology sufficiently etc.

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I believe I was referring to the NanoLube oil additive. It is IF WS2 (use current numbers from them for particle size range) but it is a concentrate in a mineral oil base. At one point they had a product that was the same except a synthetic base. It went away. I really don't understand why they would favor mineral oil; but they did. The material is certainly available in synthetic motor oils; but in quite low concentrations.

My feeling is that with the mineral oil base, it is not an optimal product for "oiling things". I have used it in engines, where it is a minor contaminate in the normal (for me) synthetic oil in the engine. After consideration, I did not use this in guns. If it is all you have, it will plate surfaces with WS2. I am not sure how the carrier will feel about firearm temperatures. I just do not use the guns often enough or long enough to evaluate the oil.  If I were to use it, I would try once and see what happens. Then I would use it , clean with solvent, and reapply regularly for a while. This will build up a lubricating surface and wash away any (potentially) undesirable oil for a fresh supply of undesirable oil. In the long run, you will win. The coating is somewhere between permanent and a pretty long term coating between applications. The surface bonding is from some very near field forces (van der Waals force for those interested). It is used industrially as a fairly low pressure spray application or burnishing  for "permanent" parts lubrication.

My gun lube up until ArchOil showed up was alcohol and the non-IF WS2 that I had bought. Next lubes will be ArchOil. I am working on getting some pure IF WS2  powder from a private source to play with carriers. ArchOil has a bottle of IF WS2 with an evaporating carrier. That is what I am going to use. You wind up with a dry gun (no dirt attraction) that is pretty slick (sorry).

If enough people are interested, I would be willing to buy a tube of the "snake oil from dwarfs under the Urals grease" and repackage it in small quantities for experimentation.  I don't know what it would cost that way. I would have to cover a container and shipping derived from the number of people wanting it. ArchOil has it for about $13 for a small syringe. See their site.

Still no feedback from Boberg Arms.

The Nanolub that I bought, stuck in my car is, I believe sitting at the bottom of my oil pan.  I took the car onto the freeway for a short stint in second gear at 5k rpm to see if it would mix.  I think, not well.  How do you keep it in suspension in the engine? 

Count me in on the "Ural snake oil".  I'd pitch in to get a tube, just send me a 35mm film canister full in a toilet paper tube for my trials.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to hear from Boberg, I would suspect at this point they are just trying to keep up with what they got.  Me thinks they might be a tad too busy to experiment with different lubes.  But we might be able to point them in the right direction.

I am not sure why you think that. It is essentially a thicker oil that will disperse in circulating oil.

Results re not immediate. It needs to get in there and coat the surfaces. Even when it has done that, YMMV. The preexisting state of your engine will to some extent determine the improvement. I would think that a tight engine would provide the best results. I would have replaced the oil in my Honda when I took delivery, but the nano oil was not available for several months. But it still made an apparent difference.

Remember that us checking mileage at fill-up is not a real scientific method. Among other factors, we do not control the usage conditions between fill-ups. And temperature, wind, and weather. Look at the results over months to flatten the variants in conditions. It is not like giving the engine a shot of nitrous oxide.

One application I am sort of curious about is using WS2 in the fuel. It might get better coverage of cylinder walls. But it also might screw up the spark plugs or injectors. I am not going to play with that.

Thanks for sharing your research.-Chloe

Just curious how things have worked for you. Have you seen any mileage improvement? Note that in my car, I used the oil from Millers Oil not the concentrate. And I did see a mileage increase. But the concentrate really should mix just fine.

As you see, you were the only one interested in the Ural Snake Oil. So I will pass on that.



Artosa said:

The Nanolub that I bought, stuck in my car is, I believe sitting at the bottom of my oil pan.  I took the car onto the freeway for a short stint in second gear at 5k rpm to see if it would mix.  I think, not well.  How do you keep it in suspension in the engine? 

Count me in on the "Ural snake oil".  I'd pitch in to get a tube, just send me a 35mm film canister full in a toilet paper tube for my trials.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to hear from Boberg, I would suspect at this point they are just trying to keep up with what they got.  Me thinks they might be a tad too busy to experiment with different lubes.  But we might be able to point them in the right direction.

I've gotten used to the smoothness in my engine since adding the Nanolub.  Even with running the air in the city, I,m still getting at least 30mpg; which means 2-3 mpg better.  Also added Red Line D4 to auto-trans; seems to shift smoother.  Looking on the Archoil site, they have some interesting items.  I,ll probably order some of their stuff to give it a try.  Not familiar with Millers Oil, does it have ws2 in it?  I like the Slipstream lube and grease, but if another Boberg comes my way, I'll put the Archoil in it from the start.  The LPS anti-seize isn't that good, me thinks.

P.S.  Welcome Chloe and Newbies!

Yes, Millers Oils (note the s in oil) has a version using WS2. It is the EE Longlife ECO. It is a very high quality (I am told) with WS2 (I am sure). It is quite expensive. Economically you are probably better off with the additive. It was the only WS2 bearing material when I bought the Honda. Compare prices.

Clearly, you have made a great point! Further advance will be enabled. 

Sometimes good stuff is better than the best stuff, I mean good is enough for certain issues. Science is also the same.

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