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As for the 460, lets not loose sight of the fact that this is supposed to be a pocket pistol and the more weight that get's added diminishes the guns ability to do just that. I don't know that the trade off for a more powerful cartridge is worth the extra weight, but that's just my opinion. 

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I can see where this is leading (read: .50 GI). ;-)

The sub-compact category (guns between 6 and 7 inches long), has many times more firearms than the pocket category (under 6" long).  Still, an XR46 sub-compact would likely be the world's most powerful sub-compact.

Here is Bobo's chart on subcompacts.  Looks like 9 pages of guns versus 2 of the pocket pistols. http://www.southernoutdoorlife.com/mouseguns/CompactCompare.pdf

Only 1.5 pages of .45 ACP in sub-compacts.  I was kind of surprised by that.

Ah, so there won't be an AR45 pocket pistol. Just very small subcompact at 4.2 inches. I understand 6" length is not a magic number, but was hoping for something a quarter inch smaller or so with extension barrel option to max out performance on my first pocket pistol (and I'm bored with 9mm). Any thoughts of an AR45-XS with a 3.97 barrel? :)

3.97" barrel would make the XR45 5.99" long, so still a pocket-sized pistol.  Hmmm...that would really give us an edge in the pocket pistol class if we gave it a separate SKU number.

Would a 5.99" XR45 have an under rib long enough to add a laserlyte v3?  I cut a new rail on my XR9-L to snug up the v3 to the trigger guard and it is a lot easier to operate with the trigger finger.



Arne Boberg said:

3.97" barrel would make the XR45 5.99" long, so still a pocket-sized pistol.  Hmmm...that would really give us an edge in the pocket pistol class if we gave it a separate SKU number.

IDPA max barrel length for BUG (backup gun) category on semi auto is 3.8" which seemed to be perfect for the current XR45 specs. It's 3" for revolvers. 

 

Adding 1/4" to the frame to match a 3.97' barrel still would not offer enough length for a functional picatinny.

Alan, I think you missed Arne's post he's thinking 4.2 as the small version, not 3.75 anymore as of now. So that'd be 4/10th of an inch bigger than your BUG semi-auto spec. and 2/10th bigger than pocket.

Arne, one more SKU and dominate the pocket category! So you can say "Much more powerful than an Officer's, but fits in a pocket! In fact, it's power is closer to a Commander,"

Who wouldn't want to own the most powerful pocket handgun in the world? I'm also okay with 3.75", you can market the world's most powerful backup gun or pocket gun. Then give .22 inch extension barrel for max pocket power. It'd sell.
It'd sell a lot. Then use the longer ones to differentiate comfort on the hip and smaller profile.

Only problem with a 3.75 is I read (somewhere once) that below 4" (3.97 is close enough) ballistics are seriously affected in this particular caliber. Not sure how significant. So maybe a reason to be almost 4".

And Christopher, if the v3 won't fit on a 5.99" barrel, you'll need the non-pocket anyway.

It's a myth.  Easily worked around with thoughtful ammo selection.  I'm very comfortable carrying sub-4 inch barrels.  XR45-S is a step up from 3.1 and 3.3 inch barrels.

Scaldihan said:

Only problem with a 3.75 is I read (somewhere once) that below 4" (3.97 is close enough) ballistics are seriously affected in this particular caliber. Not sure how significant. So maybe a reason to be almost 4".
Good to know. Thanks. I wondered. But unless there's an XR46-XtraSmall, it appears the smallest is a 4.2 anyway,

Based on the articles I have read in IDPA magazine, the BUG category barrel length is the main requirement. There is no power factor and magazines are limited to loading 5 rounds to allow people with revolvers to not be at a disadvantage. So, the best possible answer is shoot my XR9-S. If I really want to max the barrel length, could ask Arne to make a 3.8" barrel similar to the 4.2" in the L and replace the 3.35" one.

I ordered an Onyx XR-9S last week and UPS says my FFL will get it Wednesday. Look for range reports next weekend. I ordered a couple Kydex holsters from Alabama Holsters (1 front and 1 back). I plan to carry the XR9-S back pocket.

I currently carry a Ruger LCR 357 front pocket in a Blackhawk #4 sleeve. That is pushing the max on front pocket carry for me. The specs say 6.5" OAL, 4.5" height, 1.28" width, and the weight is roughly equal to XR9-S when both are fully loaded. I noted the spec sheet says Ionbond DiamondBlack for my Ruger so they should match nicely.

So the 4.2" barrel on the XR45-S with a 6.23" OAL still meets my requirements for front pocket carry. Loaded with 7 rounds of .45, the weight is going to increase over the revolver

It's neat to dream: XR9 rules pocket pistols, XR45 dominates subcompacts...  what's next?

For regular competition purposes, I'd want something as good as my current Kimber Custom Target II or better. This would require a 5" barrel (which looks like a possibility for the XR45-L) or longer, but I would also need a larger magazine capacity and corresponding larger grip. An 8 round mag minimum and another 1/2" - 3/4" or so on the grip if we want to start planning.

I have no plans on changing the smallest size, the XR45-S with a 3.75" barrel and 5.77" overall length.  I may offer a 3.97" barrel, tho.  I haven't decided.  To keep things less confusing on our end, I plan on keeping any .460R rated pistol the same dimensions, with the same barrel offerings, as the XR45 pistols.

Scaldihan said:

Good to know. Thanks. I wondered. But unless there's an XR46-XtraSmall, it appears the smallest is a 4.2 anyway,
That's a relief. I was confused by this post where I guess you meant a 4.2 on an extender barrel. I thought you meant you had modified your plans for the XR45-S standard barrel size (and just hadn't updated your promotional piece). Am excited to have been wrong and that it spurred suggesting something interesting for you to chew on.



Arne Boberg said:

As it sits, I'm planning on a 4.2" barrel (for US and Canada) to be used in the XR45-S, and a 4.6" barrel for the XR45-L (or the XR45-S).  A 5" barrel can also be offered to use in the XR45-L.

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